these people need to be held accountable. we promise promise to do our pa. we will see you here tomorrow. good night from new york. >> welcome to america where freedom isn't the only thing that is free, so is everything else. i am tom sullivan in for neil cavuto. immigrants, take your pick. the government promoting a gateway for new citizens to take advantage of government benefits. the website promoted by the department of homeland security basically serving as a menu of handouts and giveaways that they can jump on. medicare, medicaid, food stamps, you name it, political analyst says this is why the land of the free is becoming way too costly. joined by manager jonathan hoenig and democratic strategist margery clifton.
this is an advertisement? >> what this is doing is just encouraging people to game the system. when my mother came here, she did not come here to try and get welfare benefits, she came here to be self-sufficient. what this administration is doing is trying to create people not self-sufficient but dependent. tom: jonathan, what happened to the day when immigrants set i want to go to america to have a better life? are they still doing it? >> land of the free is now land of the freebies. we turn the american dream into the dependency dream. i am vehemently anti-entitlement. we have had generations of generations of successful immigrants who came here and succeeded prior to the migration of the entitlement state.
we're advertising a thing as having a damaging impact not only on the economy, but of the culture overall. tom: what is your take on this? should the government be advertising all of these? >> let's be clear, calm is approved these benefit programs as well as the appropriate budgets to go with them. we will have these programs but we will not let anybody know how to actually get access to them seems a little bit ludicrous. mothers would want the website and put everything in fine print so the elderly cannot access it. he looked back to earlier immigrant times, absolutely they advertised the families have come across. we should make the benefits that were bipartisan approved available to the people they are intended for. >> all those benefits are modern invention. they came after.
advertise them as a reason to come to america and a great benefit for coming to america. >> this is only welcome page. they are transforming this country int and a country that s dependent. when really what this country is about is coming here to achieve the american dream, not welfare benefits. >> everybody is saying great, we are land of immigrants, come on in. the only problem with it is there are booklets written in various light which is in other countries on how to basically game the system. there is something wrong with that. >> here's how to access the system. the bipartisan congress put into place. anytime you're moving toward a new country does not matter if it is american moving toward another, there are things you have to understand to be part of any system. how do you pay your taxes? how do you get signed up for the
appropriate visa? and how do you get health care and everything else? >> as well as a section that advertises one of the reason many immigrants come to america is because of the free health care. >> listen, listen, listen. we have a country where we used to require, don't know if they still do, does anybody have to have a sponsor and so much money in the bank because it used to be our grandparents had to have a lot of different assets or wee they would send them back home. tom: let's go to jonathan. >> we should want immigrants to come, of course, they are a vital resource in a benefit to this country. entitlements are not. the fact they are ready for freedom and we are at the door the minute they step off of ellis island handing them the
benefits and saying sign-up, i think it only is in decorating immigrants but would-be voters and you know which way they will vote. >> should be encouraging people to be contributing members of society, not burdened on the system. we say welcome to the country, be a burden on the system. tom: we used to have that rule, do we still have that rule? i'm asking the question. >> there are clear set of systems and requirements for anybody who comes over to be an immigrant or become a citizen. a lot of what we're talking about for immigration reforms are setting up very clear lines of systems. this is about people who are self-sustaining also contributing. people come into wor in to worky into the state system receiving benefits from and that is a key thing to understand. the reason somebody would come from another country to game the system. americans are not willing to do in a lot of cases and we need
them to sustain our economy. tom: if you are right, every afternoon on the radio and i will tell you there are government adds not only for immigrants but everybody saying we have all of these great benefits. never remember hearing commercials for government benefits prior to maybe five, six, seven years ago. >> advertisements for welfare as well. advertisement essentially growing the size and scope of government. of course we all want them to come and contribute. but it does not contribute to anything. all these programs are all broke. the one sending us over the proverbial fiscal cliff. >> should the benefits be available to people, that is one interesting conversation to have. i'm sure we can agree there has to be cuts in a lot of these programs.
but whether we should make them available to the people they were intended to is the important thing is absolutely they should. >>tom: i'm not so sure we should spend money in booklets and advertisements and everything. we will see you at the end of the show, but thank you for tackling this one for us. instead of giving thanks, unions are not giving up, and this thanksgiving labor strikes could stop travel everywhere. in the grand old election backlash, republicans are turning on each other. and something about federal workers, that will make you fed up. they are earning more, but still complain more, and you are picking up the tab.
prompting a file a complaint to prevent strikes in protest. wal-mart says it again is illegally rallying the workers. david, there are rules about a union going to protest a company for limited amount of time if i have got this right, but they have gone way beyond that? >> yes, absolutely. thank you for having me on the show. there are definitely rules and they have been violating those rules. we filed the charge last week. labor board said it is their top priority and they're looking into it, we're focused this week like a laser right now on black friday serving our customers because it will be an awesome event at wal-mart this year. >> they keep making efforts to do that, but have you ever had a
place that has actually gone union? they can vote if they get 50% or more, right? >> yeah, they've trie they haveo organize wal-mart for years unsuccessfully. timtime and time again we concle they don't need a union, they have a good deal working at wal-mart, they appreciate the opportunities we have at wal-mart and we appreciate our associates. we can have wifi without our associates and we will have over 1 million of them working on our stores on black friday. tom: you're such a big company with such a large number of employees, you have people who are very happy with their jobs, people who could take it or leave it, disgruntled former employees or even current employees. the disgruntled are going to be the ones that march out to tell the story about why they are so unhappy. the question is, is there some way to address the union's that would finally say to them go
ahead, take your vote, take a shot at us. >> that was one of the things i'm glad we filed our own unfair labor practice. why are we doing something about this? the few associates put in front of the media in this attention to not represent our associates base. the 1.3 million associates and they appreciate the opportunity health the ice that were to co to.worked for the company for 10 years. 20% of the people we hire this year were rehired. they worked for the company at one point, they left and decided they weren't getting as good of a deal so they came back to wal-mart. that is a different story than what the unions would have you believe. tom: so it's going on friday. are we going to have people in
the parking lot covered front of the doors harassing customers, what is your plan to provide security for the customer? >> our plan plan is we will sera lot of customers that day. we have some hot items, even guarantee three of the top items and that is unlike other retailers you might go and get up to the front of the line and then be sold out of that item. we are guaranteeing through the hottest items and we really believe that if the majority of the customers experiencing, great shopping experience and a great thanksgiving event wal-mart. tom: willet rule before black friday? >> that'll be up to them. we were glad when they said this was the top priority, but black friday will go on and it will be a great event at wal-mart. tom: even so, there are rules about what you can and cannot do around a company. you can't interfere with the
employees, can interfere with the customers. and yet they will not stop, so it is a long-term plan, there some way to meet agreement with these folks? >> i think longer term we have to see where everything goes. we will see what the labor board decides, but this week focusing on black friday, we manage our stores like we always have, one customer at a time, one associate at a time and we are ready. tom: have got to mention this to the audience is the fact that even though you are not allowed to business in new york city, i know you and your associates and truckloads of equipment have come in to help the people victims of sandy. it is a very good move on your part, don't know how much of it is pr and how much you jus he dt to help out people, but you can't do business here but you'ryouare helping the people . speaker that is just who we are, we have been doing that for 50
years now. anytime the communities are in need we are there to step up and help, such an awful incident, and we're just happy to do our part when the governor called and governor chris christie called, we got our trucks on the road as quickly as possible getting relief to the victims hurt by hurricane sandy, that is just what we do. tom: i would love to be a fly on that phone call. i know you're in new jersey and new york, still kept out for some reason. thank you very, very much. >> thank you, we appreciate it. tom: the fiscal cliff is not here yet, but more companies say they are already falling off. and while everybody is worried, washington, guess where they are, they're on vacation.
tom: the fiscal cliff is looming, many companies are preparing for the worst. already cutting back on things like hiring and spending among those kind of things but nobody in washington, nobody is there working to get the mess sorted out. the president touring asia, congress is on recess. tea party activist says the government has got to get their priorities in check. and so this is something that has been a pet peeve of mine not just for the last couple of days or since the election, because once we knew there was going to be a fiscal cliff, we were talking about this six, eight months ago and everybody washington sat back and did nothing. >> i think it is funny people are criticizing the president for being abroad in asia during
this crisis. the president can do what he does at the white house, which is absolutely nothing to prevent the economic calamities that will come on all americans because of his fiscal policies. at the end of the day the worst fiscal cliff is becoming a sensible term like green energy or hope and change. it is president barack obama tax hike. it will kill small businesses who employ the majority of americans. couple that with obamacare, and you are in big trouble. tom: i don't mean to remind you but we had an election recently. and his point, you sa say okay,i know there was almost country voted for mitt romney, but more voted for him. and so he has the cards right now. >> first of all the rest of the country is not a bunch of defeated republicans, they're the loyal opposition and had a voice in the right to express their concerns. he is now the president of the
people who voted for him, he is the president of the united states of america and he ought to act like it because he has not done it for four years. tom: john boehner has another election in two years. he has the entire house every two years. so he's going to want to look like the obstructionist again? and by the way, he has the vote thing going for him. he think he will go along? speak out like to hit republicans in the head and say no matter what you do, you are getting blamed. he might as well do it is right. people did not put john boehner into office to equivocate and become a democrat like. tom: you're her the republican party has to change. >> mitt romney moves to the middle on a lot of issues and it got him a lost election. at the end of the day there are issues. there are things that are right and there are things that are
wrong. president obama's tax hikes would need to crucify small businesses in this country like along with obamacare, it is a crushing blow to the ethereal spirit and the bottom line. you already see businesses maneuver and they are not going to hire more than 25 employees or work over 30 hours and this tax hike on over people who make under $50,000, the majority of those are small businesses. by the way, this is a big old news flash. 2%. 2.1% of the population makes 250. come on. tom: it is the same answer the president has given before. a lot of surveys lately, we understand, it won't fix the deficit. you think it is going to? no, but what is it for? it is because of fairness. >> that is what i want people to
understand the president obama does not care about fiscal responsible if your economies or jobs, marked the doctrine of fairness, because he went out and build a business, you were successful, it is not fair that others didn't. this is a market idea, it is what this man is about. he can crush as many people as possible to get this fairness thing under wraps. tom: if things go bad and the economy slows down, people will look back and say what the republicans do? republicans went along with it, this is what a lot of fear is, they will say not us, they own it. the democrats own it, do you think that will stick? >> there's no question the vast majority of the media will pin anything on them like the death of jesus and disappearance of jimmy hoffa. at the end of the day they
should do what is right. decide what is right, do what is right. and thethey promised during thet crisis when we were negotiating the debt ceiling and promised to cut spending. if they do not like what is happening with sequestration they can cut the same amount. they must cut spending first and reform entitlement. it is immoral to promise people things like social security and medicaid when you notice broken and will not be there. that is a moral issue, do what is right. tom: i feel like we will have this conversation again. pennsylvania state director, thank you, jennifer. who is really out of touch? the vice presidents in the white house? >> as the president stepped things up for the governor, we are not going anywhere.
and you have a homeboy in the deal who gets it. the boys use capital one venture miles for their annual football trip. that's double miles you can actually use. tragically, their ddy got sacked by blackouts. but it's our tradition! that's roughing the card holder. but with the capital one venture card you get double miles you can actually use. [ cheering ] any flight, anytime. the scoreboard doesn't lie. what's in your wallet? hut! i have me on my fantasy team.
tom: postelection fallout hitting the g.o.p. add bobby jindal to the list now. blending of the republicans for their big loss, but who is really getting it wrong? the grand old party or good old joe biden? >> a man who will be the next president of the united states. >> god rest your soul, low, her mom is still alive, your dad passed. >> they're going to put you all back in chains. >> we are not going anywhere. we're not going anywhere and you
have a homeboy in the deal who gets it. tom: republicans should stop calling each other out of touch and focus on how the vice president is out of tune. every once republicans, including republicans, that appeared to be already throwing their hat into the ring for 2016, saying you have to change. >> first told us a break from the 201the 2016 talk. republicans are doing what generally parties always do when they lose an election. they try to be the one who is right and the leader who is going to move people into the next election especially if they have a different party in the office in the white house.
tom: it makes sense, you always look and say what could we have done better. are they going beyond that? speak i think they are going beyond that. the difference in the wrong people under the bus and actually having behind closed-door meetings about what went wrong with the party and who they really should be putting up in 2016. in the immediate aftermath, it has not been that long since the election. republicans who take a step back really taken actually what happened and talk behind closed doors about what they can do better next time. as far as joe biden's comments. if a republican and said what he said about the homeboy, they would be painted as racist immediately. there are bigger fish to fry for public and especially the state could be helping with the fiscal cliff and promote the attitude on hoand how that will affect te state and pressing john boehner to the right thing for them because the states have bear the burden. tom: what do you think went
wrong with the election? >> so many things. that rummy missed a big opportunity with the youth vote. they should've done a couple of college tours with the business schools because there's a lot of republican type thinking students and business schools across the country that are not political. i think the romney campaign hasn't made that human contact with voters and republicans haven't been that great at the past 30 years and i think president obama just had better get out and vote effort than the republicans did. we saw that in the days since the election, the technology failed. >> i think you hit the nail on the last point. the obama campaign had 200,000 people on get out the vote. romney campaign had 20,000. just 10%. it makes a difference. i thought republicans were energized. >> they cannot be energized left to talk about the candidate is and asking for their vote but why the candidate will be better for you.
one thing for them to vote against barack obama, another to be energized and get out to vote for mitt romney. tom: if i had a message i'm trying to sell it to people, they may not buy my message back of the best get out to vote effort possible and they still won't go out and vote for me if i have the wrong message. if i have the right message, i've got to at least have the ground game, otherwise the message dies. >> that was with a huge part about why the romney campaign failed. republicans in general don't understand it takes the human contact, and there have been some conservative groups that have done a great job. they tried their best to get out the vote, but it did not understand human to human contact to have to make for people to want to vote for you. tom: there was this orca. some sort of new super high-tech
thing that i would get a note of who voted and who hadn't selected run over to the persons house, the whole thing was a miserable failure, did not work, nobody could access it. >> they were relying on people to take it upon themselves to get their neighbor to vote and they needed at least 200,000 people person to person going door to door and talk about why mitt romney was the better choice and they failed at doing that. tom: is to see you, thank you very much. here is the good news, republicans are trying to stop your taxes from climbing. here's the bad news, that could mean you will pay even more. i will explain next. for many, nexium helps relieve
some republican lawmakers are pushing to limit the tax deductions instead of hiking income tax rates. states with a lot of tax write offs like california and new york would be hit hard. california money manager says the fiscal cliff face could lead to a lot more problems. i will explain. >> there are different ways to skin the cat. increased tax rates or eliminate loopholes, and if the democrats are going to go down the path to try and find ways to find revenue by increasing taxes or eliminating mortgage interest adoptions on states like california and new york, we both know that on both of these coats, real estate values seem to be the highest in the united states, so if we eliminate that, there will be money to pay to the government as a result.
tom: this is becoming clear even before anybody knew who was going to win the election because mitt romney was talking about putting some sort of overall cap which would hurt people with the biggest deductions. and it looks like maybe that is the middle ground then they go for. >> and i think they will come to some middle ground. i think it'll be a temporary fix meaning i don't think this fiscal cliff will be a permanent solution. i think we will patch and then watch going forward however to handle the taxes, but they will look for revenues in these two poles. tom: there' there is a problem,d convinced what you have been doing is extending its expanding and extending. how can you run your life, your business, how can a business too a kind of plan are budgeting and you don't do what the are going to be a year out? >> with all of that lack of
clarity, you will see volatility in the equity market like you have since barack obama has been reelected. the markets have sold off almost 1000 points of dow jones, then came up a little bit but you will see without clarity for businesses to plan or for the individual to plan in the united states, yo we will contie to see extreme volatility in these markets which makes it a very uneasy situation for a lot of people who look at their 401(k) and retirement plan. tom: i was looking down the list of california, new york, wants of thwith the highest individual write offs. those are all blue states, my friend. >> it makes a lot of sense in terms of where they will look for revenue. and i think the matter where you cut it, it is real. there are ramifications the fiscal cliff and we will see
where it shakes out with respect to how the republicans and democrats figure out how to increase or keep tax rates the same or figure out loopholes to eliminate in order to get more revenue. and these are the states they will focus in on it wil that wie the hardest hit. tom: the president still says he wants higher rates, he wants those rates in the worst ways. this is all interesting, but if they raise the rates he said that action might be better off because you can keep your deductions. >> i would say these deductions for a lot of people that invest in real estate to write off mortgages or some other deductions, charitable deductions we have are that the people have that are in place, have to be careful with those and you have to be careful with raising tax rates on what he deems the wealthy. $250,000 per year or more in some of these areas like new york or like california with two children in private schools with real estate taxes that are
very high, tom, if not necessarily wealthy. you look at your after-tax income. tom: averages around 50 in the country. i can't help but think of an old donald trump quote, they change real estate deduction, took a lot away in the 80s, said give me back my 70% tax rate but give me back my deductions because he felt he was already paying more. good to see you. you are paying up, folks, so they can live it up. don't listen to what government workers tell you. they're making big bucks, and we have the proof.
tom: goodbye turkey dinner and hello cinnabon at the airport because while its unions get their way, your thanksgiving trip could be grounded. coalition los angeles now threatening to protest at lax wednesday, the busiest day, hundreds of workers pulled off the jobs. that could ignite a travel might buy one of the busiest days of the year. the workers locked in a health care dispute with management. jonathan hoenig says it is making him sick. he is back. jonathan, what a day, there is a domino for the whole country, period >> your day just got a lot worse when you see the big inflatable rat outside of lax and hundreds of angry union protesters. and i hav you have a right to ak passengers and those who want to
go to work. i'm not surprised they don't want to work with the union. the airlines, mentalities, automobile, twinkies, what they'll have in common? all ruined by the union. tom: the union said we are not going to have a strike, all we we're going to do is have 1200 people marching down century boulevard to sepulveda and those who don't know l.a., the main entrance to the lax airport, 1200 people will create a nightmare out there. >> the only power unions really have in terms of negotiation is their ability to conjure up visibility. the fact we're talking about this right now means it is working already. the question has to balance is if we pick off consumers while also getting the attention they want in this case the airlines, you have to look back at baseball season when the referees went on strike.
it wasn't the referees everybody got mad at, they got mad at the baseball league because they were not given with the referees needed. the question will be can they do this in a way that will get attention but not tick off many people on the thanksgiving weekend. what better day, semi-looking at it right now. >> if you don't want to tick off the public, do it on a tuesday three weeks from now. >> right now wal-mart employees are actually talking about potentially doing to walk out on black friday for the same reason. huge press visibility, to hurt them in the pocket. tom: unions represent fewer and fewer and fewer and fewer of us, and they want people to like them when they do something like this? >> this will only make people angry at them when they mess up the holiday traveling.
what is interesting is majority of lax employees wanted to opt out of the union. now the union says nobody ever voted for that, that is completely false. the story is kind of crash because a bunch of the media outlets in los angeles are reporting they're speaking to employees at lax usually part of the union and they said we wanted to get out because they were not doing anything for us, and now that they're out of the union they are making $2 more than they were before and better health insurance. i think it is interesting now their story is completely falling apart. tom: in a pr person or somebody for the union. >> i think they need more than that. i don't know what kind of respect they are generating the people trying to go home to see their families on thanksgiving, but it seems like they work through intimidation. blocking streets contracting
people going to work or go about their lives and that is how they achieved their political power. the only reason you see them grow is in the public sector because no private company with a mind on the head would ever want to work with a union. tom: were really down to where there is a single digit number you can argue, 7% of the private sector, another 6%, the government is really making a total of about 13%, so how can the union can't have good will when they do things like this? >> they're rolling the dice on this one. are they going to scare the airlines, are they going to scare everybody advanced enough to get what they want before they even have to ask? which may even be a better case scenario for everybody around. >> will they scare them enough? that is intimidation. rather than acting by reason,
they will just try to scare them in your words. >> i'm not trying to defend the unions, but what i'm saying is that she pointed out it is our american right to express our freedom of opinion and our freedom to demonstrate. in this case and that is what gets the portrait and done, that is what gets the bar turned on for them. >> you think you look at what just happened, 18,000 people now unemployed from hostess because of the unions. be thankful they have a job in this economy instead of just wrecking the holidays. tom: thank you all very, very much. appreciate it. this conversation will continue. the truth about government pay that will make you say there has got to be a better way. @?@
tom: it is an age-old question, to public sector workers make less than private sector workers? federal workers say yes, but a new report showing if you include benefits, they are way wrong. public sector workers getting more sick days than private sector's and receiving retirement packages nearly three times as rich as the private sector. since taxpayers aren't getting their money's worth. thank you for joining us. i hear the arguments, but there was a federal salary council that came out and said no, no,
federal employees are underpaid by 35%. they were not even close. >> is the age-old question because it seems every month, every year we have somebody coming forward saying look at these poor federal workers, so underpaid, we have t had to do something for them. what we see looking at a lot of the data is exactly what you mentioned. don'they don't take into account this generous full conversatio n package a lot of workers had. on average they had federal workers being paid 30 to 40% more than the average private sector worker and you adding to effect all the benefits. that is something we have been looking at taco wha top of whats happening the fiscal cliff in the american government and whether we will be fiscally solvent in a few years. this is a kind of spending that goes unchecked because people don't want to do an apples to apples comparison with the private sector and public workforce. it is a good question to be
asking about how we can solve it. tom: of their overpaid by 35% of expected there would be a strong flow of them leaving and going out to the private sector. you'd have an immediate pay hike. >> is the federal government and onto workers much more the private sector. the rate of about 50% more people staying around them leaving and private workers like to look for better compensation packages, and overall you have to look at what the cost is to taxpayers, americans for tax reform, look at how much takes to actually pay for these compensation benefits and the wages over the course of a 40 year career and it can be as much as $8 million over the course of one federal worker. this is something have been looking at and asking what are we getting for the money we put into this system, are we getting the kind of returns would like
to see, and that is why we have to have an apples to apples comparison looking at private workforce and public workforce and making a direct comparison between academic achievement levels and the jobs of folks are really doing and what they're getting out of it. tom: we have heard the same sort of story of how the stakes are paying more, and now all of a sudden over the last few years there are huge layoffs coming from states, cities, counties and the local government counties because they saw that they couldn't afford all of this. the conversation doesn't take place on a federal level. >> if you lots of layoffs coming in the wake of stainless money drying up. it pumped hundreds of millions of dollars into public sector unions and public education program telling states and localities they have to hire more people in the federal funds dried up state and local government cannot tak could note
weight of it any longer. a lot of states like ohio, wisconsin going after a lot of the requirements of a lot of different contracts put onto them by unions to make this right with taxpayers who ultimately have to shoulder this wording of the high cost of labor force that they can't afford. >> seemed there was a switch someplace